Episode #1: Jessica Lanyadoo — The Astrology of Working in Tech, Burnout, Boundaries & Why We Should Be Taking Risks [Full Transcript]
Girl Gone Viral: #1: Jessica Lanyadoo - The Astrology of Working in Tech, Burnout, Boundaries &…
What happens when a top meme maker and world famous astrologer get into a room together? A deeper look at global…
What happens when a top meme maker and world famous astrologer get into a room together? A deeper look at global trends, conversation and some inspiration, of course!
On the premiere episode of Girl Gone Viral hosted by Liz Hagelthorn, Jessica Lanyadoo joins Liz to discuss The Great Resignation, burnout and what this means for tech employees, the Internet’s Saturn return and the rise of Web3, the Pluto return of the United States and what Uranus in Taurus means for our financial institutions and crypto. Then Jessica and Liz discuss how to define our own value systems and how to set boundaries authentically when you’re dating someone new.
Jessica Lanyadoo (lovelanyadoo.com) is a Humanistic Astrologer, Psychic Medium, tarot reader, and Animal Communicator. She is the host of the top ranking astrology and advice show, Ghost of a Podcast and author of Astrology For Real Relationships (2020). Jessica can be followed on Instagram at instagram.com/jessica_lanyadoo.
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Full Episode Transcript
Please note the transcript below is computer generated and may have grammatical, spelling and other errors
[00:00:00] Liz Hagelthorn: Hi welcome. I’m so excited for everybody to hear this episode, Jessica Lanyadoo is one of my favorite humans on this planet. Astrologer psychic medium and animal communicator. Jessica hosts, one of the top podcasts in the world called ghost of a podcast. She also has a book called astrology for real relationships.
And in this episode, I really wanted everybody to hear the Jessica. I’ve worked with us for so many years, and then I’ve gotten to know, and the discussions we have around what it’s like to work in tech and some of the issues that I’ve had to personally work through. Here’s the episode and joy I’m like Jessica talks to animals.
[00:00:56] Jessica Lanyadoo: I do. Okay. Okay,
[00:00:57] Liz Hagelthorn: Jessica. So what [00:01:00] is the number one question that you get asked, like during your session?
[00:01:02] Jessica Lanyadoo: Okay. So there’s a million questions I get asked, but they all get distilled down. To this, when will I get the thing that I want that I believe will make me happy? That’s what people ask me. So they asked me, you know, should I move to Florida?
Should I sell my house? When will I get into a relationship? Should I break up with someone? But really what they’re asking me is when will I get the thing I want so that I can become. That’s the question
[00:01:37] Liz Hagelthorn: yeah, that makes total sense. And I love how you just get right to it. So I think that is an amazing jumping off point to start.
You’ve been an astrologer since 1994 based out of the bay area, and I’m sure. The decades have seen a lot of people come in with similar, but also very different things that they think will make them happy. Whether it’s [00:02:00] salary or relationship. What’s your approach when answering that question for people, when you realize that.
They think something out of reach can make them happy. How do you approach it? It
[00:02:14] Jessica Lanyadoo: depends on so many things, including, you know, meeting the person. Who’s asking me where they’re at. So if somebody is living a life where they’ve made a series of choices that don’t make them happy, uh, then the answer is going to be different than if somebody just got one thing in place that doesn’t make them happy.
Right. Because you really have. I think that people have this idea when they come to an astrologer or a psychic that there’s some magical formula somewhere to unlock. Life, and then you will reach a magical age or moments in your life where you just get things and they make sense. And you’re like, okay.
And that, from that place, life is just chill. Like [00:03:00] I think that there’s like a bunch of weird assumptions that people don’t actually think or believe, but they feel, and it kind of leaks out in my consultations. It leaks out with psychics and astrologers and stuff like that. Um, and so I. Uh, you know, My hope through my work is to help people to understand where they are and how they got there.
And some of that’s about things done to us. Some of that’s about circumstance and some of that’s about our choices and to empower them to, from a place of acceptance in the moment. To start making different choices, better choices, hopefully. Um, but it really does depend on like who they are, where they are what’s
[00:03:42] Liz Hagelthorn: going on.
Yeah. Yes. I cannot wait to get into this. So you hit on a few points, especially about understanding. Where somebody is and how they got there. I think it’s also very analogous to growing on social or meme pages. One of the things I always tell [00:04:00] people when they ask me, what is the most viral video you’ve had or what was that moment that just turned the page into a 7 million follower page?
And the thing is, is with fire virality and viral videos is. If you don’t understand what made you go viral in the first place, meaning it kind of was a freak accident. You’re going to spend the rest of your time trying to replicate that by just repeating the same thing, the same video that you did over and over again.
And I think that is really translatable to life. Right? If you had one successful moment, You’re going to want to create, recreate that. And you’re never growing. You’re not building off of a solid solid foundation. Want to hit on something that you said about helping people figure out where they are and how they got there.
So, As we look into the 2022 astrology, we’re coming out [00:05:00] of 2021 this long tumultuous year, still in a pandemic political racial tensions are super high. What can you tell us about. What we’re coming out of and the astrology of 2021. Yeah.
[00:05:20] Jessica Lanyadoo: I mean, I wish I could say I felt we were coming out of that, but I don’t.
Um, I hope we are, you know, um, but I think we are, you know, it’s tricky. And I wonder, like, if there’s something you heard me say on the podcast where you’re like, this is what I’m thinking of, but I kind of feel like. And this really bothers people when I say this, but January of 2020 was the beginning of the pregame show for the true game that begins in February of 2022.
And so what we’ve been dealing with in these past couple of years [00:06:00] has been preparing us for. Astrologically, it looks like it’s coming, um, this year and over the next two years. And so whether we’re talking about. You know, um, healthcare and ableism, whether we’re talking about trans rights, gay rights, racism.
I mean, there are so many things voting rights, uh, you know, net neutrality. There are so many things that we have been dealing with as a society, um, in the U S but also globally. And all of these things are going to take greater, um, They’re going to become a bigger deal, uh, this in this year. Yes.
[00:06:36] Liz Hagelthorn: The work is never done.
So on that positive note, I want to just quickly wrap up on 2021 and talk about, it feels like there was a lot more breakups that I saw just in the news or across my newsfeed or from friends. What can you say about relationships in the pandemic and what you’ve
[00:06:55] Jessica Lanyadoo: seen? There were, I bet there were, but it’s because [00:07:00] so many people were either getting into relationships during a pandemic, which is like very fraught or the pandemic brought up shit in their relationships.
And, you know, people, so many people have busy lives, like we’re out going places, doing things. And in. So many people were stuck in doors with their partner and had to rely on their partner. And, you know, there’s nothing better than having to rely on your partner for some kind of like survival based issue to realize you don’t want to be with your partner anymore.
You know what I mean? Like that’s just reality. And, and other couples are, you know, tons of people didn’t break up. Tons of people are still really happy, but, um, yeah, I’ve seen a lot of breakups as well.
[00:07:45] Liz Hagelthorn: Right. That makes so much sense. I feel. For me and my single friends, it was like, oh shit, we have to settle down.
Now we have to get our lives together. Like we can’t keep fucking around, like this. We’re going to get COVID or dating is going to get even harder. [00:08:00] And really, we got serious about what we’re looking for, my value system. And what I’m looking for has changed a lot. When I look at myself before the pandemic during, and even right now, I used to go into an office every day, like a lot of people, but now I really, really value.
Working from home and having the flexibility and having the time to make lunch for myself or have other interest over just my nine to five job. You talk about Venus retrograde on your podcast and how that’s a call for us to redefine our value systems and how we embody them. Can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:08:41] Jessica Lanyadoo: Yeah. So. Venus retrograde that 2022 kicked off with, um, is I always kind of want to connect it when we’re talking like big picture. I want to connect it with the Mars retrograde that we end the year with. And there’s a mercury retrograde, really close to the Mars retrograde at the end [00:09:00] of the year, I’m really close to this Venus retrograde that we kicked off January 1st, 2022 with and.
It kind of, um, teaches us that 20, 22 is all about re-evaluating our values and seriously considering not just who we value and what we value, but how we experience that value, how we express that value. And so it has a lot of. Relationships, but it also has to do with where we spend our money, what we’re willing to do to make money.
Right. And you’ve seen that with the great resignation, um, that that is happening where people are just like, not going back to these bullshit jobs. I’m not doing this anymore because when shit hit the fan, I wasn’t safe. My employer didn’t take care of me. Why should I go back and be miserable? So again, we’re seeing.
Systems expressing value. We’re seeing individuals and communities expressing value for better and worse. And then by the end of the year, when Mars goes retrograde, what we’ll see is how we [00:10:00] embody and act upon those values. And this is where people’s frustrations and their ego becomes a much bigger deal.
And so part of evaluating our values from my perspective is about really looking at. Individualism and community mindedness and both of those things can be toxic and both of them can be liberatory. So it’s about figuring out what we think by being willing to reevaluate, to learn, to listen and to be willing, to be wrong.
I mean, I would love. I would love it if 2022 was a year where we talked about how it’s okay to be wrong. And instead of shaming and blaming and punishing people, we hold space for each other’s evolution, because I do think that through the Pluto return of the United States, which I did talk about in my year had podcasts, um, through that transit that is impacting us globally, but largely in the U S.
It [00:11:00] would become very, it’ll become very easy to continue to blame people and shame people. And, um, the kind of culture of that is very complicated and, um, could really go sideways on us as, as a society. So,
[00:11:15] Liz Hagelthorn: okay. You bring up a lot of great points that I want to get to, but first the great resignation, the Harvard business review looked at 9 million employee records from more than 4,000 companies.
And they looked at trying to quantify what’s the issue and why are people leaving most interesting? The Harvard business review did a study on who’s exactly resigning and why. And one of the conclusions that they came to was it’s actually employees between the ages of 30 and 45 that had the greatest increase in resignation.
Rates with an average increase of more than 20% between 2020 and 2021. What industries do the 30 to [00:12:00] 40 five-year-olds work in? Well, the top industries with the highest resignations was of course healthcare workers, 3.6% increase, and even higher than that. Was tech resignations increased by 4.5% in the tech industry.
So 30 to 45 year olds working in tech were the highest resignations in the United States during the great resignation as a 30 to 45 year old working in tech. I like to talk about some of these issues. Of course, the first one being burnout. What advice would you give. MI,
[00:12:43] Jessica Lanyadoo: you know, I started recently looking at, and I have not done the exhaustive research that it would require to talk about.
Very well, but I started doing a research into, um, the biggest workers, the, the base workers, revolutions and revolts in the [00:13:00] United States to see the astrology of it. And I started to see some really interesting, um, themes of course, which resonate with this period and time astrologically, because Shoji allows us to see these cycles and trends.
So some of this is I think about the Saturn Uranus square. It’s about a number of things, astrological. What it boils down to in human experience is that there’s a systemic problem, right? There’s a systemic problem of, um, the way that companies treat workers. And there used to be, you know, um, for my parents, I’m, you know, in my late forties now, but for my parents’ generation, it was kind of this way, but certainly for their parents’ generation, it was where you work at a company, you know, You give them everything, but they give back to you.
You can retire, you know, you have medical insurance, you have a pension, whatever it is that shit doesn’t exist anymore. And in tech, it even looks bad if you’ve been at the same company for too long. I mean, it is [00:14:00] such an exploitive world and. Is for white collar workers for people who are not white collar workers eat is it is so unsafe and it is unethical.
The whole system is jacks and it kind of happened really quickly. It feels like this, this, um, like lack of workers rights seem to have snowballed through the tech industry. Honestly, at the end of the day, the pandemic, I think, uh, kind of sped. People’s frustration. And people’s inability to pretend that their companies cared about them or pretend that it didn’t matter because it does matter, especially when calamity hits as it has hit.
We’re still in the calamity. You know, when we are looking also at social media, we see these like evidence of these people, and it’s not necessarily a lot of people, but. Feels like a lot of people who make millions of dollars, just posting selfies of themselves and like sports bras and stuff like that.
And you’re just like, I can fucking post a healthy and a sports bra. I [00:15:00] can make money on that too. And what people haven’t fully realized yet is when you turn yourself into a product of soap for some big corporation, you’re doing the same thing, but without health insurance haven’t figured out. Uh, as a, as a society, as a collective, the value of people, all we seem to figure it out is how much each of us wants to get rich as quickly as possible.
Right? Like it’s the only thing we seem to agree on at this stage. I think that that’s true. And as, as much as that’s true, there is a growing, um, response to that from people who are like, fuck it. I’m going to be self-employed, I’m going to do what I want to do. I’m going to figure out how to participate in the world in a way that reflects my ethics.
And it’s just a slow process because people with money and power. I mean, they’re not going to give it up and it’s very hard, you know, if you, if I had kids, if I had like debts in a particular, right. You know, like if there was like, if my [00:16:00] circumstances were different, I wouldn’t have been able to take the choices.
The chances I’ve taken over the course of my life, around my career. Right. And so many people don’t really have great choices around this stuff, but I think the more, the people who can take risks do take risks. We will see either the system snapping back. Um, and forcing us back into place or we’ll see real change.
And it depends on the people know. Interesting.
[00:16:26] Liz Hagelthorn: So as far as the systems snapping back, what does that really look like? I mean, we see it in the news, Google, among other tech companies having a Toria. Review system that is based on a anonymous peer feedback and goal setting. What was a system snapping back kind of look
[00:16:47] Jessica Lanyadoo: like?
Let me just say, because I’m in the bay area and I consult with lots of people in tech, obviously, because here I am, I will say that the system. Doesn’t work for women and [00:17:00] it doesn’t work for people of color bucking period. Like that system of peer review, the way that tech works most of the time, like the vast majority of the time when women come in and they tell me they work in tech.
I know they work in marketing because there’s highly gendered sectors. Um, in, in tech period, I don’t care what company it is. And as an outsider, right? Like I live in the bay area, but I’m clearly an outsider it’s attack. It’s really hellacious. Like it’s, it’s, it’s a really problematic world. Uh we’ve we’ve pretended that we’ve moved beyond.
It’s just, you know, white guys, you know, with all the power and, and that’s, you know, that sucks, but it’s an industry that pretends to be liberal and progressive and pretends that it’s not like that. And that to me is really heartbreaking now in regards to. Your actual question or many people talking about a general strike.
I think that would be great, you [00:18:00] know, and it would work a general strike would work. We know this because we see how the world is scrambling to pretend we’re not in a pandemic because it’s desperate to put workers back in their jobs. Right? Like it doesn’t matter if they die. Doesn’t matter if they kill other people, let’s just get them to work.
So clearly a general strike would work. Something like that in many ways comes at the expense. Of the workers, not of the rich and powerful. And so I feel really complicated about it, um, about like advocating for it. There is certainly astrology for, um, to support the idea of, um, a general strike or some sort of major, um, strike, which would be easiest to execute with the.
But, uh, so many workers are not unionized. You know, they became really unpopular. Th there are non-intact K
[00:18:50] Liz Hagelthorn: no, that’s exactly right. It was reported in the New York times on January 4th, 2021 by Kate Conger, that more than 400 Google engineers have it’s [00:19:00] 260,000 person workforce had organized a minority union marking a growing activism at one of the world’s largest company.
The new union called the alphabet workers union was organized in secret for the better part of a year and elected its leadership last month. There really isn’t any other examples of unions in tech. There are very rare and far between, but
[00:19:29] Jessica Lanyadoo: for the most part is I think all of tech is anti-union because the worker’s rights are not in the best interest of tech of tech giants making money.
I mean, period. And you know, it is not a stereotype. From my experience, the higher up a person is in tech, the less driven by ethics and concern for people in lower paying jobs they seem to have. And you know, it’s really sad, but in my experience, and this again is a [00:20:00] little off topic, but it feels connected in my experience.
Once somebody starts making 300,000 a year, they start to compare themselves to somebody making a million. Once somebody is making a million a year. They’re only comparing themselves to people who are making 5,005 million a year. Like there’s this way that people start to lose perspective of their income in the context of the global economy or even, um, the national economy.
Right. And they only compare themselves to people in this, this industry bubble and this. Really problematic because it’s a scarcity driven model. You’re only comparing yourself to someone who has more, even though you have enough and you have enough to be generous, you have enough to make a difference in the world.
If only you could see your abundance. And I have this experience, um, when people work in tech, they are driven by a scarcity model. A lot of the times intellectually by an abundance mindset, but materially in a [00:21:00] scarcity mindset. And that works in the best interests of the employer. Always, always. And it’s kind of what you were talking about with your experience in tech as well, right?
You’re just like, I can, I can do this as long as I do it behind them. And the truth of that. Is it doesn’t really, it doesn’t work. I mean, it works for those who it works for, but it doesn’t work for everybody else. So,
[00:21:21] Liz Hagelthorn: especially with me, I remember a few years ago I was working at a startup and you said to me, you were like, you are operating from a fear-based mindset right now and it is getting in your way.
And I remember it so clearly I think it was in like 2019. Far back. It is, you know, once you’re in a fear-based mindset or a scarcity mindset, mindset, especially materially, as you talk about, but intellectually abundance, you don’t realize that that’s where you’re operating from. What are some tools that you can give to people that.
Or even just me like how to snap out of it when I’m acting in that way, because in the moment I’m not like, Hey, I’m [00:22:00] operating from fear, you know?
[00:22:03] Jessica Lanyadoo: Yes,
[00:22:04] Liz Hagelthorn: of course. Yeah. Like how do I get back from that?
[00:22:08] Jessica Lanyadoo: Yeah. You know, some of this is like personality based. Like some people are going to just have a, there’s just so many ways of doing it.
This is what I’m trying to say, but broadly speaking. My attitude is this, first of all, understand what is the medium, the median income of people globally. Find that out. It’s not hard. Google, Google. Okay.
[00:22:32] Liz Hagelthorn: Okay. In the us, it looks like it was about $35,000 a year with some conflicting
[00:22:39] Jessica Lanyadoo: reports. Okay. In the U S $35,000 a year.
Who in tech is making 30. No one, right? Like very few people are making that money. But so it’s first of all, about looking at that, looking at what is the median income, right. And I think it’s wise to also look at it globally, right? To give it [00:23:00] context because we don’t just exist in the country. We live in, we live in a global world.
The other thing is to look at the choices that you’re making with the way you spend money and whether or not they make you. And this doesn’t mean if they don’t make you happy stop doing it because that’s unrealistic for a lot of people, but a lot of us will spend money because we feel bad. So it doesn’t make us feel good.
It’s a distraction from feeling bad, very different. You know what I mean? Like. Okay, this is a personal example, but I cannot help because it is so fresh. I wanted a block blazer, you know, I just wanted a block, blazer, something, a little fitted, something like a block blazer. So what did I do? I went onto the internet.
You may have heard of it. The worldwide web. I went there and I saw so many black blazers and I kept going shopping and I got less and less happy because I was comparing myself to the model. I was considering which ones would look bad on me and which ones will look good. You see where I’m going? It was a fucking mess until I found a black blazer with these massive, I don’t know what [00:24:00] it looks like.
A dinosaur is hugging the back of the blazer and I bought it. I don’t know why it made me happy until. The transaction was over. And then I was like, oh shit. So I looked for the blazer because I want it to be happy. The process of looking for it made me unhappy. I found something ridiculous and it made me so happy.
And then I bought it and I was like, that’s not really a black blazer, that’s an RPS. And then I was unhappy. And then we’ll see when the package arrives, how I feel, none of this is a. All of it is scarcity driven, all of it, even though it provoked different emotions. So it’s about recognizing that piece.
Like what are your habits and your process with how you process emotions, and then it’s about recognizing something that you touched on, which. You don’t need to make all your money at once. If you make all your money at once, you will fucking blow your money. If you have everything you want right now, will you actually be [00:25:00] happier?
Will you actually still be hungry? Will you still do the work? Hell no. Most of us. Hell no. And so this is about also recognizing like, okay. I have enough to eat. I have enough to pay my bills. I can buy myself Q shit. I can eat organic. Maybe, maybe not right, depending on your, your circumstances. And I want more.
So I have everything I need and I can be present for the abundance of that. And I want more and understanding the difference between want and need is really valuable and sitting with the discomfort of, is it complacent to be happy with what I have, even though I want more. And capitalism will tell you, yes, it’s lazy, it’s complacent, but it isn’t, it’s an, it’s an abundance mindset.
Money doesn’t buy you happiness. Having enough money to survive does buy you happiness, but having extra doesn’t make you happy. And I believe there’s plenty of studies out there about that, but I can just say from my own experience, consulting with clients over the. [00:26:00] The more money people have. I absolutely do not see a single bit of evidence to suggest that they’re happier because of it at all.
[00:26:08] Liz Hagelthorn: Like at all. Oh my God. Yes. I mean, it’s so funny. I bet how many people can relate to this. But I started doing the same thing where I watched my own body and my own mood. When I was wanting to spend money. I found that. It was always right before I was about to get something that I really wanted. So for example, like if I’m starting to see a guy, like all want to go and shop for outfits for our date, like I’ve already planned out the entire fair to our date.
Like this is the life we’re living. I’m going to be wearing these revolve pantsuits and. They’re going to be chic, and this is what we’re doing here. Instead of doing my laundry, I’ll just buy an entirely new wardrobe. I mean, I do that all the time and that’s such a scarcity mindset and I don’t really need the [00:27:00] things.
And I challenge anyone. Who’s listening to this to do the same, the next time they want to make big purchases, especially that they know they don’t really need to pay attention to your body and why you’re buying. And when, like, is it in times in the morning? Is it at night? Is it when you’re stressed out?
Is it about when you’re about to get something? Is it to get somebody to like you, I found that paying attention to that really changed my,
[00:27:28] Jessica Lanyadoo: yeah. That’s exactly it. And I think it also translates to work. Like it’s, it’s like I got this job and if I just work harder and if it makes sure everyone likes me, then I’ll get the promotion.
That’ll make me happy and make me money and allow me to get a better job or whatever. Like this it’s this. Mindset of what I have is only a jumping off point to get this impossible thing. That’ll make me happy. And this is the thing, and it took me many years to learn this as a practitioner, but the only reason why we want things, the only reason why we [00:28:00] want anything is because we believe it will make us.
It’s the only reason why we want anything. And if we can stay in contact with that essential foundational truth, it becomes a lot easier to recognize when things are not making us happy when our desires are not making us happy, our desires can be, um, the sense of yearning that is inspirational, and it can be a way to invalidate the present moment and the abundance that you do have, and to be fixated on a future that you’ll never be.
Because you’re only ever in the present. I know that sounds as hippy as I am, but welcome. Can you just describe
[00:28:39] Liz Hagelthorn: perfectionism to a T like living in this, if I can just control like the next, you know, three months or this future that I don’t live in right now that feels like, just like that perfectionist part of me.
Like I ha I definitely have that. How do we not, you know, obviously you scrolling through Twitter, especially when Trump was on Twitter. He’s [00:29:00] not, thank God. Lose our energy on the distractions.
[00:29:05] Jessica Lanyadoo: I think about this a lot as an individual, as well as, as an astrologer. One way is recognizing who you are and what you can tolerate.
Like personally me, I, I can consume a great deal of news. And after months on ends of doing it every day, I will have like an overwhelm and across, but other people can only do a couple of days. And then they have an overwhelm and a crash. Like you have to know your nature. And that means experimenting with what works for you.
So that’s one thing that the astrology of this period. Really trying to teach us how to be more discerning, how to consume journalism and news and information in a way that is healthy and proportionate. And so some of this is about simply like learning, like, okay, do I actually need to know what, for instance, you know, a politician says, or do I need to only focus on what they’re doing and how do I focus on what they’re doing so that [00:30:00] I don’t get distracted by what they’re saying?
PR, right. Um, this might be more work than a lot of people want to put in, but I will say this, uh, get out the notes in your phone and jot down a couple of things that are really important to you. For instance, for me, um, it would be COVID it would be human rights. It would be environmental development. I mean, I actually have a massive list, so I’m a bad example, but for somebody who’s just like doom scrolling, it’s about recognizing there are certain accounts.
That you can follow, or there are certain news sources that you, that you can follow that are liable. Right. And then everything else is just, it can be very noisy. And so it’s about recognizing, are there certain times of the day that you can take that shit in and other times of the day it’s like memes and cute cats, but it does take more effort than most people do.
I think doom scrolling is kind of mindless. And so when we’re mindlessly scrolling, It does make us feel terrible. So I think it’s about bringing more intention into things.
[00:30:58] Liz Hagelthorn: You mentioned this earlier. I [00:31:00] want to talk about it. Um, the Pluto return of the United States, that’s a very dooms day. Like if you just looked at astrology and you Google that, you’d be like, oh shit, I’m moving.
To Sweden. I’ve got to go, not dealing with this. I’m putting my head in the sand. Can you talk a little bit about this transit and, and what it means and kind of how we can avoid doom scrolling
[00:31:21] Jessica Lanyadoo: about this? There’s no way to talk about Pluto return. That is, that is substantive and not scary. And so for people who really don’t know about astrology, it takes about 248 years for the planet Pluto to move through all the Zodiac signs and to return to where it was last.
And so. When we talk about the Pluto return of the United States, we’re talking about Pluto returning to the exact place. It was, um, when the United States, you know, was created and we used the us Sibley chart for that. Okay. Or at least I do not everyone does I do when the Pluto return happens, it can only happen to countries or entities because people don’t live 250 [00:32:00] years.
Right. We have seen this happen in other countries and it can be associated with the fall of empire. It is essentially. Um, a confrontation with the shadow side of this nation. And we are looking at the Pluto return of the United States at 27 degrees of capita. We can say very broadly that the Pluto return, we started to feel its impacts in 2008 when Pluto entered into Capricorn.
And that’s also, you know, when Obama became nominated to be the president of the United States, which put a lot of things in motion, uh, very good things and very bad things, right. And specifically Pluto came into orb in January of 2018. And we all know what happened then, right? There’s a huge amount of things that happened at that stage, um, socially and politically.
And then in February, February 22nd, 2022, um, is when Pluto hits the exact degree as that it is in the, the United States chart between [00:33:00] 2022 and 2024, we will be, um, experiencing, uh, a series of exact hits from Pluto and in this period, We will be dealing with our, um, foundational history of genocide and slavery and, um, injustice.
We are not just dealing with it on a domestic level. We will be dealing with it. As far as our global presence, we have gone into so many other countries and force people to be more, just more humane reforce people to go to war we’ve given them the tools of war. We’ve done some terrible things. We’ve done some great things, but we’ve done.
Terrible things and we will be answering for all of it. And what that means could mean that things get a lot worse or that they get a lot better. But what it doesn’t mean for sure. Does it mean is that things will be, we’ll continue with status quo. There’s no more, we cannot expect that. And the truth of the matter is, is that [00:34:00] the way things are going now in the United States politically.
Truly terrible. Right? There’s so many terrible things happening. The chart for the midterm elections in 2022, it’s real bad. Uh, voter turnout looks real bad. Um, it looks real bad and you know, the Republicans have done an exemplary job, such a good job of repressing the vote and Jeremy. And so, um, even if we did have great voter turnout, I don’t know what it would mean.
Uh, but we are in that is, so that is not specifically connected to the Pluto return like astrologically technically. But the fact is we are going through this period during, uh, An election year. And so w having unrest, having things be so bad with COVID is inevitably going to reflect poorly on the current administration.
But even if they were doing a great job, given all the things that are happening that are like from the hundred Galt or whatever, like the pandemic, I [00:35:00] mean, it just wouldn’t reflect well on that administration anyways, but we’re in. I mean, I’m really, I’m trying to avoid the worst of the conversation. If I’m being honest, most people, most individuals don’t have the tools or the willingness to experience shame, and to experience trauma and to take responsibility for the trauma.
They may have inflicted on others or their ancestors may have inflicted on others. And because of that, When we experience trauma and shame and terror and resentment, all Plutonian feelings, we tend to act poorly as individuals now as a collective times, that by in many, many times that by many, many, like it’s just, you know, a group of scared people are a dangerous group of people to be around.
Right. A squared individual could go in any direction, but it’s a scared stadium. They’re going to Stampy. They’re going to, you know, they’re going to often do the worst. We sit here, [00:36:00] dealing with all of that. It is frightening. And on top of that, um, there is a Neptune Jupiter conjunction happening in, uh, Pisces this spring.
And in April, specifically, it’ll be exact. And the last time we ever experienced that was 1856. So Neptune and Jupiter have. Uh, since then, but not in the sign of Pisces. And that was the civil war. Um, and it’s arguable that we’re already in a civil war. Right. Um, but things may get more intense also. Um, Uranus in Taurus last time we had that world war two, the amount saying this, because I think war is inevitable, but even if we do not experience a civil war, even if we do not experience a global war.
The themes of people feeling called to bear [00:37:00] arms because they feel threatened and they feel that something is so important to them that they’re willing to fight for it or die for it or kill for it. That’s how. That’s where we are. And so this is kind of got a doom and gloom vibe a little bit the pandemic, obviously.
Yes. And also the pandemic has made economic inequities so much stronger. It’s made it so much worse. You know, there’s so much happening. And again, when we look at it from a systemic perspective, we have to understand that none of our lived experience exists in a vacuum. And right now, The volume is turned up.
The heat is turned up on all of our issues, certainly in this country and our systemic issues. And I imagine that more and more individuals will act out in response to that. And then the people that they act out against who may or may not be the ones responsible for anything [00:38:00] wrong, um, will act out in retaliation because fear begets fear begets.
Right. There’s so much to say, but within all of this, I want to just acknowledge technology, which we already kind of touched on, but the internet is going to have its first Saturn return. Oh. Well, what’s going to go wrong. Right? What could possibly go wrong? But this is where, why we’re starting to talk about web three, right?
This is why, um, blockchain and all of these things are becoming not just a bigger deal, but more of a, kind of a global conversation, right? Even people were not in tech, know about these things and are talking about these. It’s also why the United States government has revealed that in order to file your taxes online, you have to do use facial recognition software.
That’s just like a new thing that they’re putting in place in the summer of 2022. So we become more in a surveillance, state, less in a democracy. And what can we expect to come from that? How can we expect to be free within that? And, um, the answers are pretty [00:39:00] grim, right? So we do need people in. To actually be the leaders for social justice, which is a really sad statement I just made because that is not consistent with that demographic.
[00:39:12] Liz Hagelthorn: You mentioned web three and cryptocurrency, and I really want to talk about it because it’s a space I’ve been in for a few years now. Uh, selling cabbage art to pay for gas fees for first-time artists. When Satoshi Nakamoto released the computational spell that would later go on to spawn Bitcoin through the publication of a hugely influential white paper, many aspects around.
Satoshi and around blockchain technology have become Sudan and OAS with magic internet money. The idea is outlined in the white papers, uh, especially for Bitcoin and also Ethereum emphasized a lot of faults in inequities. Of huge proportions [00:40:00] underlying our dominant financial systems while also simultaneously envisioning a new world of ungodly wealth creation.
It’s almost like this technology came to us from that. Like where did it come from? Who started this? Like what happened and what does the astrology say about cryptocurrency or web three becoming a solution financial activism. I’ve this broken
[00:40:29] Jessica Lanyadoo: system, Uranus and tourists tends to coincide with a change in currency, and that’s not specific to any one nation, right?
That’s global currency and crypto is a global currency, or at least it can be a global currency. Um, and so I imagine that throughout this transit, which is still a couple of years, Um, throughout this transit, we will see changes to currency. And I don’t think they’ll all stick, but some of them will stick.
And those that stick, you know, [00:41:00] do I expect it to be any better? No. The people are trying to sell it. Say it’s. But the people who are trying to sell it or not a diverse, socially conscious minded group, they just talk that way. Where back to doom scrolling, it’s like we have to be conscientious, not just about what people say, but what they’re doing, because it’s easy to get a PR person to write you a script.
That’s not hard, but it is hard to act ethically. I have real concerns about that. So in magic money, on the internet, I mean, all of this. All of this stuff is classic, um, of the Saturn in Aquarius transit. This like the internet is promising in Orleans magic. You know what I mean? Like people are really into it, but we, we really cannot expect anything that is happening now to stabilize reliably.
So some things inevitably will be stable. They will become a part of society and, you know, technology, et cetera. This is such an unstable period that this is a [00:42:00] time for, you know, risk. This is a time for exploration and what will actually gain roots is what it is. I do know a couple, um, financial astrologers, the only one whose name I remember is Grace Morris.
They track the stock market and they track crypto and all these kinds of things.
[00:42:20] Liz Hagelthorn: No, but I think it’s important to be said that. Any astrologer, isn’t going to be telling you, this is a good point to buy this type of coin. I think that’s a big red flag. Like it is the same as an influencer saying here, buy the skincare product, buy this.
And that feels like the red flag point where if an astrologer is saying, this is a great time to buy Bitcoin, let’s say. Probably a
[00:42:46] Jessica Lanyadoo: flag. Yeah. As far as their intentions. And this is the thing to be a financial astrologer doesn’t mean that you’re an astrologer who’s been studying for five years and you’re really into the stock [00:43:00] market or you’re really into crypto.
There’s a really big difference between being good at taking a selfie and being good at like publishing to the international, to social media and having a substantive practice underneath you. And there are a lot of people out there who are just like, you know, again, they’re being sponsored.
[00:43:19] Liz Hagelthorn: I want to switch gears for a second, just so my listeners can hear.
The advice and that you give me around love and relationships. You’re the author of astrology for real relationships. And one of the things that as a self proclaimed people, pleaser, I always felt like what love was and what relationships were were sacrifice or conditional in that I would overly.
Sacrifice my needs to make somebody else happy or overly [00:44:00] devote my attention to whatever their problems were that are going on and never about myself. I want to talk to you about one of my favorite topics that I get to talk to you about, which is healthy boundaries with others. And. What that looks like.
And what is the advice that you give your clients who are maybe struggling with people pleasing tendencies or question their ability to have an uphold healthy
[00:44:29] Jessica Lanyadoo: boundaries? It’s so hard. Boundaries are so hard because if you have boundaries with somebody who doesn’t have boundaries or somebody who wants to take advantage of you, they’ll tell you your.
And also some people are so bad at boundaries that instead of asserting boundaries, we assert rules. And that is mean, and so it’s very fucking hard. And I think the first and most important rule with boundaries is be willing to get it wrong. And when you figure out that you’ve gotten it wrong, be humble [00:45:00] about it and being humble about it might mean being like, oh shit, I, I did this in a way that was not the way I meant to.
I don’t trust this person, so I’m not going to necessarily go and apologize to them. Like, they’re my ex or whatever. Like I’m not going to go and be like, Hey, sorry, I didn’t have boundaries in a healthy way, but you want to make a living amends. And a living amends is when you just, you know, commit to doing.
And sometimes it’s about being able to say to the person, Hey, I told you that I couldn’t see you this weekend. And we set it in a really like weird, strict, rigid way, or it was super confusing. And I gave you mixed messages. When I was trying to tell you this thing, I’m, I’m learning boundaries. Uh, it’s a process.
I’m sorry. If it was hurtful to you, you know, hold space for being able to have a conversation about it. Um, but not making it, not the thing about. Having boundaries is that I don’t think anybody’s good at them. Like seriously. I don’t think anybody’s good at them. I am really great at boundaries in some places of my life and terrible and others.
And in some periods of my life, I’m better than [00:46:00] others. Right? That’s just normal human shit. The most important thing is remembering that you do not need to make other people like you, you need to be authentic. And this is classic being this shit. It’s being willing to be authentic and having faith that if you’re meant to be with a person, as a friend, as a lover, then when you’re authentic and true to yourself, you’ll click.
Or if you’re not meant to be, you will not click with this person when you’re being true to yourself. That’s great information. And it’s not information that there’s something wrong with you, or even necessarily there’s something wrong with them as information that. When you’re being true to yourself, you guys, aren’t a great match.
That’s all that. It means sometimes it means more, but overwhelmingly that’s all that it means. And I think. Uh, thing that another mistake that people make with boundaries is [00:47:00] people defend their boundaries. So I can’t hang out with your weekend w this weekend, let me tell you why it’s, because I feel sad and I feel sad because of my job because of capitalism, like, you know, people get really detailed and it ends up feeling defensive and starts to feel disingenuous, you know?
And so when we have a balance, I can’t hang out with you this weekend. There’s nothing wrong with sharing, you know why? But the key is expressing the boundary in a clean and clear way without apologies or defenses, and then being willing to have an honest exchange or conversation about it. So that you kind of don’t smoosh them all into one.
It, especially if you’re uncomfortable with having a boundary, does that make sense?
[00:47:48] Liz Hagelthorn: No. Yeah, it makes total sense. I also. Just slips. Take an example. You know, I think one of the things I’m guilty of is okay, [00:48:00] I’m setting my boundary. I’m going to set my boundary. Like I’m going to take the day for myself.
I’m going to set it. I’m going to set it and then, okay. Let’s say on new year’s Eve, I. One is the day to edit and go to the gym and just have a day someone that I was talking to, wanting to pop by. And I’m like, no, you can’t pop by. Cause like, in my mind, I’m like, okay. I started my boundary. Yay. And it’s not so much.
About the surgeon of the boundary. It’s this spiral that then happens afterwards in my head where I’m like, oh gosh, that was so harsh. And this person just wants to see me and oh my God, I’m a monster. Why am I asserting? So heavy handedly and the kind of shame spiral that happens afterwards of asserting a boundary [00:49:00] for a true people, pleaser, they can relate, but it’s
[00:49:03] Jessica Lanyadoo: a weird, it’s a weird thing.
It’s like when you don’t feel that you have a right to a boundary is when you’re more likely to be too sharp, too aggressive, concede too early. It’ll it just comes out weird and it feels weird. Right. But. You recognize, like I had my fucking day planned on new year’s Eve. I wasn’t ready to change the vibe of my day.
Cause hanging out with somebody even so many, wanting out with changes the vibe of your day and being able to say like, oh, I can’t today. Sorry, that was, that would have been enough. And I think it’s about recognizing that the reason why we defend our boundaries is because we do not feel entitled to our boundaries and we feel that other people are entitled to our time.
Our. And if on some fundamental level you, cause you use yourself as an example, that’s what’s happening. You feel that a man that you may or may not have boned, [00:50:00] uh, is entitled to your time or energy when it’s convenient for him, then that’s the problem with your boundaries. Ultimately, because that’ll sneak in to fucking everything.
You know what I mean? Like it’ll sneak into everything. So it’s about being able to recognize. What are my assumptions and beliefs and you know, whether or not like I analytically think that I’m like, what do I feel like what’s in my body about it. And recognizing that those are the places you need to be a little extra protective of because the more comfortable with.
With X asserting boundaries, the easier it gets. It’s like any other muscle, you know what I mean? Like you lift weights and you start with five pounds. That’s where you start. And if you do it consistently, you know, you will hate it. Your muscles will shake. It will be painful. And then you’ll be getting more pounds.
Like it’s the same thing with boundaries. Like you start small and whenever asserting a boundary, I always try to ask myself, okay. What, what do I want to say? And what do I need to [00:51:00] say? Not to protect their feelings, but to be honest and authentic, sometimes the thing that you need to say is simply, no, I can’t, but then you want to make them feel good because you’re assuming that hearing, no, I can’t will make them feel bad or mean something bad about you.
And again, these are assumptions to be excavated and investigated. So it’s tricky, you know what I mean? And there isn’t like a singular answer because you may say that to one guy and he might be like, You can’t do it. And somebody else might be like, what the fuck? And both of those things are about the guy and not about you or your boundary.
So I think something that is especially rough on women, as we feel like we have a personal responsibility to carry all relationship dynamics upon our backs at all times. And that of course is a fast track to being unhappy in all of your relationships, because we need a dynamic with an equal partner and an equal partner.
Could look like a million different things, but if you have a need or a preference and you can’t [00:52:00] express, it ends up hold it with a friend, a lover or whatever. Uh, yeah. Then it’s not a good relationship. If you’re just focused on being authentic, then you can be more present for who the other person is.
Because like, I don’t know anything about this dude that you said no to, but w was he hurt that you said I can’t hang out today? No, of course not because that’s not the kind of guy you date. So it’s about recognizing that when we are good friends to ourselves, when we don’t abandon ourselves, when we honor our own boundaries, then we don’t need to micromanage how other people feel as a way to protect ourselves because we’re busy protecting ourselves.
And this is something that is very hard for all people, but in particular, women are socially. From childhood to take care of other people at the expense of ourselves. And that is a collective trauma and it’s an, you know, an intergenerational trauma. It’s something that’s been going on for generations upon generations upon generations.
So it’s an inherited trauma and it’s, it’s something that takes [00:53:00] a lot of effort to work on, but it is something that can be worked on it’s it’s really, it’s really tough, you know, I definitely have seen. In particular, in like heterosexual dynamic, there is this inherent power differential between women and men.
And it puts women in a much stickier position, because if you are really clear about your boundaries and you do assert yourself and you are really forthcoming about what does and doesn’t work for you, a lot of times guys are like, what the fuck is this? No, you know, they, they don’t know how to deal with it because they haven’t encountered it a lot.
Um, but luckily there’s a lot of men in the world. That’s arguable. Is it lucky? I don’t know, but there’s a lot of, I mean, it’s not, that’s not my cross to bear, but I will say there’s enough men in the world that there are, there has to be some guys out there who want to be with a whole person, even if it means that they don’t always get their fucking needs met or their desires met.
Right. Again, [00:54:00] you know, this is the thing. Whenever I talk about boundaries, I feel like the first thing. That I want to talk about similar to self-employment actually is you have to be willing to be wrong. You have to be willing to fuck up. That’s the only way you can have healthy boundaries. And I wish there was a way around that, but there absolutely isn’t you are going to hurt someone’s feelings.
If you have healthy boundaries sooner or later, and you’ll sometimes hurt people’s feelings because their feelings need to be hurt or because they got caught in the crossfire of your own preferences and needs. And sometimes it’s just because people don’t respond well to boundaries and it’s not. And it’s your job to be humble about when you’ve done it wrong and to like own it and learn, but it’s not your job to take care of everyone’s emotions.
Like, you know, if you have a human child take care of that person’s emotions, but if you’re fucking someone don’t turn them into your baby.
[00:54:49] Liz Hagelthorn: Yes. It’s so interesting. I just, can I just say your answer is so incredible. Every time that we get to spend time together. I always it’s so [00:55:00] refreshing to hear your perspective, even on the most mundane examples in my life.
For the sake of the example, the person didn’t care. Whether or not I could hang out, they just wanted to see me. And in that moment, if it fucked up the vibe of my day, they would have never chose to see me just as I would not ever want to fuck up the vibe of somebody else’s day. That sounds awful. I hope this helps someone somewhere.
Uh, Jessica, this conversation has been so amazing. I don’t think I could end us at a greater place. I am also so honored that you are the first guest of girl golden viral, such a great way to kick this podcast off. Is there anything else you want to cover or where can people find you by me on the
[00:55:44] Jessica Lanyadoo: net? Uh, my website is lovelanyadoo.com
I have a weekly podcast called ghost of a podcast. I have a book astrology for real relationships among the I’m on the gram. Um,
[00:55:58] Liz Hagelthorn: Thank you, Jessica. [00:56:00] And thank you so much to everybody who is listening. I can’t wait for you to hear all the incredible interviews I have lined up over the next couple of weeks.
We’ll be talking about memes, shit, posting the princess industrial complex, the MIT media lab and intellectual property rights and crypto and more. Please subscribe. It really helps me and see you next time.